Why f/m?



  • A simple enough question, but something I've found meself curious about in recent years. I asked the very same question over at oldiesbutgoodies a while back and got a few responses (indeed, some of this post has been lifted from that post - recycling in action!). So I thought I'd start the discussion here too, given that this is one of the livelier boards on t'internet.

    As I'm sure most people have twigged from my few posts here to date (and in me past life on the old KAK board as Scarlet Spider), I'm an f/f fan. But it hasn't always been that way. As a youth, when I first became aware of my interest in female fighting, ANY fights would work for me, mixed or f/f. Back then, before the arrival of the net and sites like this, (and as I'm sure many other people here will have done) I would seek out any fight scenes from TV and video rentals, transferring them all onto numerous VHS tapes - A 'mix tape', in the most literal sense!

    As a fan of ALL forms of female combat, I also obtained plenty of female wrestling videos and, again, I would often buy tapes of mixed bouts as well as the f/f action.

    I can't pinpoint the moment when mixed fights stopped having an interest for me - at least, an interest in the same way that f/f action still does. In TV and Movies, I'm certainly still drawn to shows with strong female characters and I still enjoy a good fight scene (indeed, the lack of Sarah Walker action in Chuck this year has pretty much put me right off the show!). But if it's a mixed fight, I only really enjoy it on a "That's cool!" level, rather than considering it 'hot'.

    Although I couldn't tell you when my preferences changed, I do know some of the reasons why f/m action doesn't excite me in the same way that f/f will. For me, I think it comes down to how much more personal it is to see a woman take down another woman. The contest is then literally about who is the better woman. It adds a level of intensity, an aspect of domination to any f/f fight scene that I just find absent in all f/m. Also, with an f/f fight, there really is that sense that either fighter could win, a feeling that is absent from 99.99% of mixed fights, be they on film, tv or produced by sites like KAK.

    In a mixed fight, we know that the female is going to win - even if she's the villain, she'll often have the upper hand. So any tension, sexual or otherwise, is almost immediately extinguished. And without that level playing field, there's no sense of domination for me either. When it comes to the world of TV and Movie fights, women already are the stronger sex, and so the intensity that comes from an f/f fight just isn't there.

    So what's the appeal of f/m for all of you lot? How is just one hot lady better than two? How can seeing a bloke (even KAK's handsome young men =D ) ever be better than seeing a gorgeous woman? Inquiring minds want to know!

    Thanks for reading!



  • I'm with DG 99%. Can't explain it and don't really care to. Have had a passion for a long time (and KAK only makes it better). I luv the excitement a good m/f fight gives me, and i just want more, more, more…Thanks again, to Kandyman for being here in my time of need -



  • @kamach240:

    If you want the truth, then I generally like f/m because in my imagination it is me in the place of the stunt guys.

    I think that's the case for a fair few f/m fans, of any genre. Personally, I've just never been able to do that 'transference' thing. When I see an f/m video, all I see is another bloke or three. And none of them are me (Well, except for when it sometimes is me, but that's not the case around here).

    So has this discussion opened my eyes to the joys, the ideals and the love of f/m fighting? Well, against my better judgement, I just watched the trailer to Lethal Kick Ass. I've been avoiding it up until now you see, on the basis that it looked so good. Which sounds odd, but I refer you to my earlier statement of finding KAK's output frustrating. And that's still the case, only now moreso than ever after seeing that trailer. Cos Kix really is awesome; her ability, her attitude, her body, she's basically as good as it gets as far as female fighters are concerned.

    And if you replaced the blokes in that video with women, it honestly would have been the hottest thing ever committed to camera. Ever. Instead though, it's just a bunch of blokes. And that just ain't hot. How can it be?

    So nope. I still don't get it. :/


  • administrators

    Colonel, your girls wouldn't stand a chance but why would we waste our time on amateurs like you? When you start getting really bad we may start to take notice….



  • @marklewis:

    Ever since BAK launched the only thing I can think about is Kix vs Red and Silver vs. Vixen. If these two sites ever do a crossover I think Kandyman is going to have to install additional servers to handle the traffic. A KAK vs BAK event would easily be the best selling Kandy video ever.

    I agree with Mr Lewis. Those confrontations, if/when they happen somewhere down the line, will be absolute dynamite.


  • administrators

    Well, if i had my way, I'd pit my BAK girls against those KAK girls any day.



  • Upfront, just know I love both f/m and f/f fights. Ever since BAK launched the only thing I can think about is Kix vs Red and Silver vs. Vixen. If these two sites ever do a crossover I think Kandyman is going to have to install additional servers to handle the traffic. A KAK vs BAK event would easily be the best selling Kandy video ever.



  • @Jay:

    Obviously, it depends on how much demand there is for F/F action. There's none from me tbh.

    Without wanting to sidetrack my own topic (I never intended this thread to be about KAK doing f/f; it was born out of a genuine curiosity in the appeal of f/m), I would like to address Jay's point about 'demand' for f/f action. Mainly as it's a phrase that Kandyman has used in the past too.

    Fact is, the demand for f/f is already there. It's a market, it exists, and in some cases, it thrives. Right now, as big as the f/f market is, it is predominantly focused on the wrestlng genre. Very few sites focus on f/f martial arts/punchy/kicky style action, save for Footmode's picture sites, some of Sleeperkids World's output and a few Superheroine sites. But the market is definitely there.

    However, that 'demand' is unlikely to ever make it's presence felt here. Outside of a few fans who enjoy both f/m and f/f and determined/hopeful lurkers like myself, there isn't going to be a big interest in f/f material from the members of this board, because the material doesn't yet exist to have brought those fans here in the first place.

    And female fight fans (whatever their preferences) are rarely the chattiest of internet users. This board certainly has an active and healthy community, but of the 500+ registered members to this board, how many post regularly - Or at all?

    Basically, if KAK/BAK decide to produce f/f material, of course the choice is entirely up to them. But waiting for a sudden swell of support for f/f on here shouldn't be the deciding factor in that decision, because then it really will never happen. It ain't a case of seeing if there's a demand. The interest is already out there.

    If you build it… they will come. ;)



  • I think the KAK girls should be employed by the Government to protect certain highly important individuals, and the BAK girls should destroy both the KAK girls and the Suits they're protecting. It's perfect, because we've loved the KAK girls for so long, it's high time they got done over…not completely, but it would be fun to see now and again.

    Obviously, it depends on how much demand there is for F/F action. There's none from me tbh.



  • I agree with Ed here - I'd much prefer f/f, particularly if the badass girl comes out on top. I was hoping that BAK would feature rogue bad girls going up against the KAK girls… but alas, that doesn't seem to be where the site's heading.

    It's not surprising, however, that many people on this forum support f/m fights with the girls winning. Since that's what KAK & BAK provide, it attracts people who like it.

    But there is also a large number of people out there who like f/f, and possibly a majority of these like the bad girl vs good girl with the good girl winning.

    So my suggestion would be: perhaps try it out here with one or two vids & consider setting up another offshoot site to specialise in f/f. Your girls, costumes, acting and production values would be a killer in that niche as well!



  • @kandyman:

    I wondered what had happened to you Scarlet Spider!! This is a beautifully crafted post and I'd be intrigued to read the responses, thanks for posting.

    Thanks KM. I stopped visiting KAK a while back. The problem is, from my point of view, your stuff is just monumentally frustrating. Which is actually a compliment, albeit a backhanded one! :D You've got an awesome array of talent, great production values and anyone can see the work that goes into each and every movie. But, as someone who has no interest in f/m stuff at all, all I see when I look at your stuff is just so much wasted potential. And so I cut the chord and moved on.

    Unsurprisingly it was the imminent advent of Bad Ass Kandy that brought me back, simply cos it seemed like the potential for some (proper!) f/f Kandy might be on the horizon.

    @Jay:

    Are you female?

    Nope. Ed's not me real name (Ed Sizzers! Geddit? ;) ) but it still still traditionally a bloke's name, right? Although I guess you might have thought it was short for Edwina. :p

    @z99:

    Personally I don't want to watch women getting beaten up, and it's the exact opposite of what I come to this site for. I'd rather watch a woman practicing on a punch bag than F/F.

    I don't wanna watch a woman getting beaten up either. And I'd assume that most people here wouldn't want to see a man beaten up, even in fantasy terms (OK, maybe at BAK that might be the case, but the level of fantasy there is so extreme there that it can get away with it).

    Maybe I'm arguing semantics here but to me there's a distinct difference between seeing someone 'beaten up' and seeing someone losing a fight. 'Beaten up' suggests an assault, an act of violence. Losing a fight though, that's a different kettle of fish - In that scenario, both fighters are going into the contest fully aware of the potential consequences. So even if the fight was completely one sided, it's still exactly that. I ain't seeing a woman get 'beaten up'; I'm seeing a woman lose a fight.

    In many ways, this is argument against f/f (and indeed m/f) that I always find to be something of a dichotomy. On the one hand, the f/m fan is all about the strong, capable, dominant woman. But in the same breath, there's still that sense that they actually still see women as somehow more 'delicate', perhaps even weak; unable to take a hit or to even actually lose once in a while.

    @Jay:

    What you said about being personal - yeah I agree with that too. It would be good if the girl's in alot of these mixed fight sequences had a genuine reason to fight. Let's say, for instance, our sexy alpha female is married to a powerful alpha male and he cheats on her. Then she hits him after the information's been leaked to her by a loser-nice guy who secretly carries the torch for her (but he doesn't have a chance, haha). Our alpha male gets annoyed (he's a God and there's no way she should dare to be annoyed with him) and in the spur of the moment he tries to hit her back…it spirals into a fight which she dominates and struts around his broken body a couple of times before she leaves. Woman scorned. That would be far superior than a call from intel telling our sexy alpha female to go to stronghold A to destroy drug baron X. In the latter scenario, the girl is not emotionally invested. It's routine.

    For me, I don't think the scenario is the essence of what makes a fight 'personal'. Of course, yes, in terms of the plot and on a fundamental level, a fight born out of revenge/anger/forgot to tape Eastenders is going to be personal in the context of the storyline.

    But that's not the same as the the more… I dunno how to describe it... biological (that ain't the word, but it'll do!) intensity that can only come when a woman is facing a woman. Again, I think part of it comes down to the fact that in an f/m fight, we already know who's gonna win. But with f/f, it just seems like each fighter has more to prove, more to gain by winning. It's not about proving a point, or getting revenge, it's simply about being 'the better woman'.

    Which I guess is one of the reasons why f/f doesn't work for f/m fans. Cos how can something be 'better' if it's already the best?



  • Female vs male all the way with the woman dominating every second. I even like f/f just as long as it's the stuff of fantasy, like so:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkz3FVcN–o&feature=related

    I have the complete episodes of this Argentinian Playboy series and the girls are stunning! I don't know why I didn't show this sooner and the girls do wear our favorite outfits. forgive me.



  • Because most men like to pedastel women. And those overly arrogant, ego-driven types are annoying - everyone finds them annoying. That's who the sexy alpha should always be fighting imo, because it's just lovely to see her unite him with the floor and kick him while he's rolling around on it.

    We know whose going to win in most F/M fights, that's true. This is a problem for anyone who's going to shoot a scene like this and maximize it's appeal. I made a point in another thread about how Kix and various other skilled fighters would always create better clips because their skills make them more beleivable as a winner - but they still have this problem - we know they're going to win. It's not just that, it's always a matter of when.

    AJ, Syndey, Badknight, Bambi, Jet and sometimes Mata…I'm going to be brutally honest...they're not believable. They aren't fighting a bad guy, it's more like they're fighting a willing target. It's more like they're in fighting practice with a guy whose consented the use of his own body as the target instead of her wasting her make-up and hair budget on a punching bag.
    Not only that but the KAK girls are protrayed as angels of purity and morality. Vary rarely do they do things such as restrain the bad guy with cuffs or ropes etc. They rarely kick and stomp the guy when he's on the floor. They're just doing a job they've been ordered to do.
    This is why I can't wait for BAK, lol.

    Anyway I'm losing the thread....
    What you said about being personal - yeah I agree with that too. It would be good if the girl's in alot of these mixed fight sequences had a genuine reason to fight. Let's say, for instance, our sexy alpha female is married to a powerful alpha male and he cheats on her. Then she hits him after the information's been leaked to her by a loser-nice guy who secretly carries the torch for her (but he doesn't have a chance, haha). Our alpha male gets annoyed (he's a God and there's no way she should dare to be annoyed with him) and in the spur of the moment he tries to hit her back...it spirals into a fight which she dominates and struts around his broken body a couple of times before she leaves. Woman scorned. That would be far superior than a call from intel telling our sexy alpha female to go to stronghold A to destroy drug baron X. In the latter scenario, the girl is not emotionally invested. It's routine.

    The basic attraction to this, for me, is simple. I love sexy alpha females. And when a man just assumes he can win because he's stronger, and loses, is somehow amazing. Maybe it's because I don't like the egotistical one-of-the-ladsish types. Possibly.

    Never really paid much attention to F/F fighting before. There was one scene were 2 supermodels went at it before a runway show, but it was really well done and the action was amazing. Loved it.



  • Personally I don't want to watch women getting beaten up, and it's the exact opposite of what I come to this site for. I'd rather watch a woman practicing on a punch bag than F/F.

    So what's the appeal of f/m for all of you lot? How is just one hot lady better than two?

    More is still better, I'd rather see two girls ganging up on one guy than one girl taking out 2 guys at once. Which is not very sporting, and therefore exactly the kind of thing I hope to see in BAK :)



  • Are you female?


  • administrators

    I wondered what had happened to you Scarlet Spider!! This is a beautifully crafted post and I'd be intrigued to read the responses, thanks for posting.

    K


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